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  • Back to the primitive

    aariel wrote: »
    Do you sometimes wish you were part of a tribe living in nature? I do love technology and comforts of the modern life, but sometimes I wish I could live more simply, away from over-populated areas and all the noise and work. Just hunt, gather and spend most of the day lazily listening to the sounds of nature. Or maybe be a shaman and consume psychedelics as much as I want.

    I feel like I am a part of a tribe living in nature. Herbs and fruits grow in my garden and I forage regularly in the nearby forest. Since I live in a suburb just 5 mins from the forest I hear very little traffic and see no adverts most of the time. At the same time I spend hours in front of my computer and working with technology. I do not consider them as separate.

    The whole nature vs technology thing really gets on my nerves. I see technology as an essential component of nature and evolution. People to often equate technology with military-industrial complex, capitalism, pollution, global warming and other ills of civilisation. These side effects come from our screwed and immature mindsets and not the desire to improve our life and environment. The same screwed mindset would have been devastating to human societies during the hunter-gatherer phase or any other one for that matter.

    I find it completely impossible to comprehend when magicians get stuck on the use of technology in ritual for example. I do not mind someone with strong preference for outdoor rituals and magick focused on plants and animals etc. I do a lot of it myself. I find it equally exciting to explore electronic gadgets and how they can enhance/create magick. I find many people seem resistant to the idea. I love experimenting with audio and video and my dream is to one day design 'art installation' magickal space. Perhaps Festival 23 would be a good opportunity to do that...

    I think that nature vs technology attitude actually comes from religion. In mainstream Christianity human is a master of nature who owns it all and his superiority is granted to him by virtue of his soul. At the same time he has to serve god and be obedient to him. Technology has been demonized as man attempt to become equal to or greater than god. I remember reading that in ancient times priests condemned use of fabric dyes. They said that god didn't create purple sheep and to wear purple clothing was an offence to him. In the eyes of those ancient priests even the most eco conscious hippie would be a devil worshipper.

  • Back to the primitive

    Zenon Tucano Goiaba wrote: »
    if we were really following the ways of nature we would be living in a highly technological society.

    Agreed, because if we insisted on using technology in harmony with the natural cycles we depend on, whether meterological, tidal, astronomical, fungal, floral or animal, we would generate less public opposition and resistance to its use, and thus progress would occur at a faster rate.

  • Back to the primitive

    Anton Channing wrote: »
    A Hippy village needn't be anti-technology, more about clever use of technology in harmony with natural cycles. Understanding of natural cycles and harnessing renewable energy is a high technological goal. Removal of illth (harmful technology and practises detrimental to health and therefore wealth) from our lifestyles is a worthwhile 'hippy' goal without having to embrace so kind of primitivist idealism. Maybe I'm just a cyber-hippy though... :P~

    Many of the ecologic-philosophical problems we face nowadays about the "nature versus technology" theme comes from the fact that we don't see ourselves as a part of a natural net of living relations that was and it is being forged by the laws of natural selection to play an ecological role with maximum efficiency. The animals, plants, fungi and every living creature on the planet live under the law of the best use of resources possible (for many of these creatures a little detour from this condition of "optimum" means death, in population scale, extinction). When separating nature from our acts and thoughts, we are giving up on the biggest source of "technological" innovations we have: solar pannels, flight, internet... you can name a thing... nature has done it before (even a dildo, man, even a dildo [even a joint, even a fucking joint!!]). When we think we can dissociate our culture and science from the earth who spawned us and teached us to see and to copy, we become monsters of nescience - we are throwing away our greater teacher and source of inspiration. My umbandist priest always say you can ask Oxossi everything, and he will bring the answer from the woods, because the plants and the animals already know all there's to be knowed. We merely copy what already exists, or abstract what already exist in our own anatomy to produce machines (but if you give a though about it, we in fact are biological machines and nature is filled with them).

    Nature teaches us that efficiency and innovation are the core of evolution. That nature/technology dicotomy doesn't is a real thing, because if we were really following the ways of nature we would be living in a highly technological society.

  • Image hosting thread.

    Long live to the tropikaos station 23 ePy8a0Y4IeLsbnHNMGD_IpMVX-OmrdwQlEqlFms75PGLJBz6ihbeZG_VAk7Y1C5D8JTDNr52UHrMeMD4cHJOthLzjWQK9LOHorwC8Lc6CKsrsyoJcRwl4o2WQaO_rqUi1aihng_pdDjcW9rJ1QjtwGWulwYHl-bxGhAdOMZ-MuzZfMdod9LR6XrNuduGbIh7w6qIn7yMLHcYLLTWiaXx_I1Y6ny-BP8WwxFU-laZwUnC2GGiHQk5hKp5mXQ-z0uNHPrQceW465gIFIf9z78vw5VgYIs2YSlDgTpPeERYcLbIGvBBRyLgBt3cDEyQ3OlgVAAJ2P6uP1v2FKdnzFGxItffFzwTjb1vI8kba06iiCq77CYWCEYcbiB8VpXUCKUCod6OdQb9RF7PJY8bbULjmyqQ_a6jOIPswmbGljHJ-BaNUMenGRF8J_YuIS2Rsip225dwoqPD_DaOW4kiXccd36lLLD2vInzThmrDwygN48GYKdSsLMpb9qda72OkokqRI4NNZtPSSQDUw3GK3MIO5FmBMgjGgpMbBsyOO8UCdMwuTW1pDWU3cJ7qXA15W2WXe9glhfeuhh03X6GpVh8I6bk5A6olEE1m6d23OhfeAwrmfbAQ=w1222-h916-no

  • Carroll wants to banish you

    Using magick and Violence to safe guard a lampost while 'The Temple' or hired thugs attack the initiate is rather similar to an SS Ideology or boot camp. Maybe Carroll wanted to be like Myatt. Who knows and who cares ?

  • Carroll wants to banish you

    Indeed. But I remember being brought up Christian to already believe that, so when stepping outside the church for the first time, it is natural to explore things that have some overlap in thinking. I read one book by Steiner as a teenager, but quickly moved on to other things. Sadly some people get stuck there. Its like they don't have the patience to explore all the options, and dedicate themselves to the first thing they find, buying in to all its dogmas.

  • Carroll wants to banish you

    My ex-wife was into Steiner. Never had any time for Anthroposophy - all that nonsense about humans being superior to all over life forms. A fundamentally flawed philosophy.

  • Carroll wants to banish you

    S1m0n- good to see a new face in here :-)

    I think the truth lays in the middle.

    One way to approach writings of all sorts is the Apophenia attitude- in this case everything you read contains higher wisdom. "I vow to perceive every phenomenon as a direct contact between the divine and my soul". Wisdom comes to me through the radio, random strangers I meet on the street etc. In this case it doesn't matter who these people are and what they do. All it matters to me is the teaching they bring me. It's a highly ecstatic attitude. The only problem with this attitude is an ignorance of the wider context, lack of awareness of what you associate with. A while back I had a good discussion on facebook Chaos Magick Group. It referred to the teachings of Madam Blavatski and Rudolf Steiner. I always had mixed feelings about their writings. Even though they were inspiring I felt something was fishy in there...Lately i heard people say that Steiner was a fascist and "ascended masters" were also a fascist idea. One guy told me that the fascist context becomes apparent when you read the original Steiner in German. German language allows certain word-games that are not translatable into other languages apparently...

    I used to hang out in the New Age circles and ascended masters are a very popular idea in there. I couldn't help noticing that all these new agers were white and mostly wealthy people with a closed mindset... "think positive and your dreams will come true"- type of attitude.. I certainly felt uncomfortable around them... If it is true that Steiner was a fascist I don't trust the intentions hidden behind his teachings. Skilful manipulators know how to play with words...They make it all sound spiritual and appealing...

    I don't deny the value of Carroll's work but he is a skillful manipulator. The manner in which he replied my email was highly diplomatic. This gives me a further proof of his cunning. If you find him inspiring- good for you but you might feel daft if one day turns out to be pedophile or something... (Lol- maybe stretch of imagination in there..)

    I think the best way to approach things is the "maybe logic". Rather than saying "this author is a genius" i would say "genius communicates with me through this writing". This way i can not go wrong.

  • Carroll wants to banish you

    Anton Channing wrote: »
    Looking back, the best I can say about his work is that his dumbed down alchemy and qaballah (ie his Eight Colours and Alphabet of Desire in Liber Kaos and Liber Null), were good learning tools for finally understanding the real thing. :-)

    I started out with basic Sympathetic Magic, gleaned from The Golden Bough (quite some time before I got round to reading anything from Crowley, Carroll or any other modern magicians) and have remained Lo-Tech and Solo ever since. Complex correlations beyond the most basic have never interested me when it comes down to practice.

    And so, when it comes right down to it, were I to put down on paper all I'd found of personal, practical value in Carroll's works, it would barely be enough to fill a leaflet: Sleight of Mind, Gnosis, Sigils - all Spare's innovations, of course. Motionlessness I'd already got from Crowley.

    Paradigm shifting I only find interesting as an amateur writer of fiction. I find ethnically non-specific archetypal men and beasts far more accessible for invocation than any deity, and that's an approach I didn't need to read about first in a book.

    Not into shouting words of Enochian gibberish either: I find it silly and conspicuous. I much prefer the old Polish practice of whispering - SO much more sinister and otherworldly.

  • Carroll wants to banish you

    Spiral wrote: »
    White privilege is very much alive and well in even the most multi-cultural places in this country. There is very strong nationalism in Scotland, but funnily enough I have yet to encounter the level of racism here that I have in England (even as a foreigner and 'hated' English person). I think level of population has a lot to do with it.

    Throughout Europe, the majority of inhabitants of metropolitan areas tend to be socially liberal, whereas market townies tend to be socially conservative. The difference between countries such as Wales or Scotland and countries such as England is that in Wales and Scotland socially liberal urbanites outnumber socially conservative market townies, whereas in England the reverse is true. Whether liberal or conservative, the larger group within any given country or society dictates political discourse and defines the mainstream.

    Nationalism is a term that has little or no meaning without a specific context relating to the Who and the Where and the How. In a Scottish context, it is hardly surprising that members of a largely socially liberal society want out of a union with a much larger, sociopathic neighbour.