Kalyptric Izanami drunk on Absinthe

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The Downside of the Egregore Phenomenon

Outsiders might have wondered about the quiet public forum. In the Members section we had some more things to discuss, which were better discussed there. But I think this is one more topic which can be discussed publicly.

I am wondering about something this morning. (I said I wanted to work on something with discipline, but today I got an appointment and my time management is not good enough to continue my project today). So somehow I got aware of a problem in contemporary magical philosophy, which I had not thought about for very long. I remember that years ago I already had this idea in mind, I probably forgot about it because I couldn't be certain enough about the axioms of these thoughts. But today I know more about Magick/Parapsychology and it seems I was right with worrying about it.

We know the phenomenon of Egregores. A group communicates a belief about a fictional being, and does a ritual, which is more or less an "acting as if the being is real" by the group. The whole group joins in this belief in a being. A parapsychological experiment like this is described in the book "Conjuring Up Philip". A fictional being made this way shows capable of causing real physical changes to happen, something I understand as determining which possibility becomes reality (because I am (still) an Existentialist).

Simplified it only means a joined belief of a group can determine what happens, or it can at least influence what might happen, as there can be different factors with the same or greater force but another goal exercised by someone else or any cause on the possible event.

Now this morning I got aware of the fact that actually groups with prejudices, groups who keep reaffirming prejudices in calumnizing and talking shit all the time, actually do this very kind of ritual. Their group belief should be strong enough to cause corresponding real effects.

That is a fuckin' tragedy. The most stupid yobs and semi-nazis constantly practice this form of Magic without even knowing. When you're educated about these phenomena you can't deny it.

What a hero am I? When I was younger I used to be a victim of such groups, and maybe that was even a cause for my being so ill most of the time then. I fought and escaped, and fought and escaped and on and on to largely free myself from such influences. And I even managed it mostly on my own. Of course sticking to people who had a more postive image of me, which I did, should have helped, too.

I know there are many people in the world who are victims of this effect, and confidence and making your confidence factitious is such a hard thing which takes so long. Those who manage that while growing up are just heros to me - exercising their own freedom against the power of a group belief!

Comments

  • I personally believe that we all do this in some way with our different visions of reality. How can anyone decide what is real and what isn't? Are our dreams not real? Are hallucinations not real? And what about money? We all believe in money even though most of it doesn't physically exist any more, the part which physically exist is just paper with some colourful print on it... and yet some are ready to kill for it...

    It is true that other people's visions of reality can influence us but fighting with them only makes us tangled with their version of reality. The real freedom comes from the understanding that everything around us is an illusion created by our minds. It is not other people that harm you- you do it yourself by allowing them to disturb your inner peace. Of course it doesn't mean that we shouldn't take any action- especially when someone else's sick imagination leads them to killing or physically abusing others. In extreme cases I would be ready to use violence or even kill someone in self- defence. But at this very moment I am sitting at the computer and no danger is to be seen around, so why worry about it?

    I also think that the less you care what others think, the less power they have over you. In my personal universe the Nazis etc don't even exist, I deny their existence within my Microcosm. This way I hope to impose my version of reality onto my life and reject their vision This is what we practice in our every day life anyway- we refuse to see what we don't like all the time...It is a good technique as long as you remain aware that you too are creating illusion...

  • Hippi, what you say is very interesting because it touches something I am by now contemplating. This wasn't so much philosophical thinking it also came with certain dreams of last night, actually it was more meditation than dream I had somehow gotten into while asleep. There seems to come a litttle paradigm shift in my personal worldview. It's not totally abandoning an old set of beliefs for a new one, I am rather finding a relative synthesis of several perspectives. I largely had this view of Sartre, that I am not the only soul, whose dream this reality is, but that all individuals contribute to what reality is. Sartre doesn't use the word magic a lot, and when he does only in a different context, but he describes structures and processes with which you can do what we call magic pretty well, just assumes that every individual does it or can do it, so there's no omnipotence for a single individual. To some extent now I stick to that. It just explains so many of my past hardships, and also explains everyday life experience better than solipsistic theory. Now, then there's the "you create your own reality"-lot. For years I've been thinking they are wrong. The maximum sense of the statement would be pointing out personal responsibility to people who don't see it. But then I thought it to just be ontologically wrong. It's also not a good form of responsibility if you ignore the existence of other people, it easily leads to treating everyone like shit. But what I now rediscover is the capability of the magic of creation, not only via tools like in art, and maybe a little more than attracting and repulsing magical action. What I tend to believe now, is that Sartre's view is actually still right, but that there's potential in magicians to create everything in their view (which would just melt into official reality at the edges, it looks like this to me). But I can understand if someone might not even find it desirable to do that. It could mean living without an influence of any other existence/individual/soul other than ones own. But I believe it is possible. And then maybe it was this thought of creating your own reality which helped me at least start the liberation from group terror I once experienced, if you are right.

  • Well, any corporation is an egrigore, Santa is an egrigore, the promiscuous bunny is an egrigore. The problem isn't the power people exercise, even unknowingly. The problem is the fucking catchphrase: nothing is true, everything is permitted. So if enough people have a mind to, the child loving Santa can transform into a satan that will torment parents that refuse to buy enough toys to sate the greed of their children.

    It's stuff like that that makes us miss the rigidity and righteousness of old fashioned Christianity. But even there, notice - The Jesus who once condemned the money changers and spoke of the difficulty of the rich man getting into heaven - is now a White man that shows his blessing by making the righteous rich and demonstrates who is evil and lazy because by his almighty power those are the poor!

  • Well, any corporation is an egrigore, Santa is an egrigore, the promiscuous bunny is an egrigore. The problem isn't the power people exercise, even unknowingly. The problem is the fucking catchphrase: nothing is true, everything is permitted. So if enough people have a mind to, the child loving Santa can transform into a satan that will torment parents that refuse to buy enough toys to sate the greed of their children.

    It's stuff like that that makes us miss the rigidity and righteousness of old fashioned Christianity. But even there, notice - The Jesus who once condemned the money changers and spoke of the difficulty of the rich man getting into heaven - is now a White man that shows his blessing by making the righteous rich and demonstrates who is evil and lazy because by his almighty power those are the poor!

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