Knackish Isis taking Amphetamines

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The terrible problems of magicians

Long time ago KIA had a different jargon often. I don't wanna destroy the new times, though. Once there was a Chaos Monk, if you know what that is, who in the end managed the stunt of creating his reality. Creating ones reality had become cheesy as hell to me in the meantime. I dabbled in the realms of reality where that isn't possible. And that is interesting and makes you find out truths. To create ones reality I figure one has to make a choice to do so. And there can be a thousand good, clean, hard reasons not to do it. But what if you know you are capable of doing it? What I found out when I didn't bother about it much is that creating ones reality is surely and certainly a relative thingy. Absolute it is only in dreams or in bardo like states. But still it can be done perfectly. I don't find it satisfying without openess for the other and his mother and the other's other and even their other. But you got your sphere around you which you can paint in your own colours. And there can be backlashes, terrible horrible ones, painful ones ideed. The only comfort is that in my experience they were always temporal. So will I risk this pain again, knowing it is only temporal, or will I avoid it and not make the choice? Did you ever figure that sometimes your most perfect and most improbable results didn't make you happy? It seemed like you had only thought you wanted it, while it wasn't what you wanted at all, because when you got it, you didn't feel better at all. This is absurd and people, then it's always time to laugh. At least laughter feels good. But you can be buried in your shit and laugh. In man's history there must have been at least a few who did just that. Hmmm...

Comments

  • Whenever you get a result it is what it is and you learn it's not what makes you happy, sometimes you realize you don't even want it. But here's the thing, no wants anything for real. And if you want the proof of this, actually pay attention to television advertising. No all TV marketers are on the ball, but generally success breeds imitation so there is something to learn.

    No body wants a car, not really. Look at the car commercial, what are they REALLY selling? It is NEVER the car. It is ALWAYS... an experience.

    In this sports car, enjoy the experience of being young and charming and attract sex partners eager to do it with you! It's not the car - it's the experience we want! If we can be young and charming and get laid, we'd be happy walking or riding the bus!

    So you results are always going to be disappointing until you figure out what you really want. Figure that out, and a result is always appreciated because it helps you have an experience, and that's all life is - a collection of experiences!

    As for being happy, that's not even an experience - that's a CHOICE!

    And creating your own world... I fucking write and draw comics. I create worlds. I prefer to live in a collective world tho, the game of making a positive difference in someone else's life, that's the more interesting challenge.

  • Just to clarify, I was musing here, not trying to make clear statements.

    Some days ago I googled old schoolmates, some I liked, some I hated, all I have lost contact with. One of them totally shocked me. He is a young plastic surgeon now. OK, no problem so far, people have got all kinds of jobs. But I found photographs of him which looked exactly 100% like car and similar advertisment. He showed off like: Look! I have made my life identical to 80s advertisement! I guess he had his share of effort in making this real. But still all his effort was spent on becoming something he had been manipulated to find valuable by media.

  • It's not that there are no concrete things which make me happy. But it's obvious that it's not always getting exactly what you want which makes happy. Sometimes very simple things you don't need much effort for can give you a happiness which lasts for a while. Some time ago I found a quote by this entity called Seth, that from Jane Roberts, not the Aquino one. Seth said our general purpose of living in this world is learning to manipulate energy. That actually makes a lot of sense. We are in this world with desires we have and a reality with laws and factors in it and with an inertia in large parts which can seem alien to our soul. Now that's some homework! Whatever we desire, are made to desire or choose to desire, trying to get it is the exercise. We can apply all kinds of techniques and movements in our attempts, find out all kinds of things and even come to be different kinds of somebodies. It makes sense that this manipulation of factors is what we actually learn here. And what is it with Buddhism then, which tells us we must give up and just go for Nirvana? That is a good exercise which changes life for the better, definitely, I have no doubt about that anymore. Just from every meditation you wake up again and life continues. You have to deal with this life given to you again and again. There's some comfort in the traditions which say once you successfully meditated you have made it and are liberated after death. But after meditation the life wants to be lived again.

  • I sometimes ask myself a question why bother doing magick if you can approach life more in spirit of Tao, just accepting it for what it is and being happy with it. Then I often realize this is absurd. I could ask the opposite question, why bother with living without magick if you can approach it more in spirit of Tao just accepting it for what it is and being happy with it. Every event in the universe can be seen as a manifestation of life. Magick's function is to make things happen, for life to manifest itself. It can be done for pure enjoyment.

  • Hmm, I like Lolita's reasoning there. Accepting things as they are doesn't preclude changing things, as changing things is a part of how things are. Changing things with magic is a subset of changing things and so included. One can be happy with how things are, and happy with changing them at the same time! -

    But as for the original question, I did find not all results during my early illumination lead to my happiness. I think this may be because I didn't really know what I wanted in those days. I didn't even believe there was such a thing as my 'true desire' or Will in Thelemic terms. I now interpret Thelemic Will as that path which leads to the greatest lasting holistic happiness.

    I think freeing oneself from the artificially created desires of 'the spectacle' can be a necessary part of this, as these are rarely what we truely desire.

  • Hmm, I like Lolita's reasoning there. Accepting things as they are doesn't preclude changing things, as changing things is a part of how things are. Changing things with magic is a subset of changing things and so included. One can be happy with how things are, and happy with changing them at the same time! -

    But as for the original question, I did find not all results during my early illumination lead to my happiness. I think this may be because I didn't really know what I wanted in those days. I didn't even believe there was such a thing as my 'true desire' or Will in Thelemic terms. I now interpret Thelemic Will as that path which leads to the greatest lasting holistic happiness.

    I think freeing oneself from the artificially created desires of 'the spectacle' can be a necessary part of this, as these are rarely what we truely desire.

  • Unconscious magik?

    I seem to be adding to older discussions lately. But I guess seeing as I am a new member, it's understandable. A very interesting discussion, and I have often wondered about similar things..  Is it not possible to mix things, For instance Taoism and magik? I have so far found that it works very well, mixing different ideas. But maybe it not magik that I am mixing it with. And alzo ..unconscious magik.. Do you believe it can work, Do you find yourself doing, thinking and saying stuff that doesn't appear to be coming from conscious thinking, Does ritual magik have to be planned?  I ask all this for a reason, Y'see   i don't know much about magik at all.  I don't actually know anything at all about ritual magik, and as a result so far have never actually tried it. Is what I do actually classed as magik, or is it something else entirely? 

  • You have posted a lot of questions here, making it a bit more complicated than usual, to reply.

    You have asked a question in a form of "is something I do magik, or is it something else?" so I think an answer to the question "what is magick" is in order.

    More than anything - this is a relative term. Every mage, especially every chaos mage will have a different answer. I find Crowley's response to be suitable, even though I disagree with it slightly. Crowley, in his Magick Without Tears (http://hermetic.com/crowley/magick-without-tears/) says "MAGICK is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will". He means the higher Will of the Holy Guardian Angel, the true self, but some consider subconscious the true self as well (the biological equivalent of the Holy Guardian Angel). If you agree with this definition, you will notice that immediately your question is answered - magik will hence be whatever you do that originates in your subconscious. In other words, you needn't be aware of the magik, you needn't have performed a ritual, yet it still can be magick. If I was to answer personally to "o you find yourself doing, thinking and saying stuff that doesn't appear to be coming from conscious thinking", I would say: "Hell yeah! That's all the magick I ever do"

    As for ritual magick, or magickal activity based on ritual. Ritual, according to wikipedia: "A ritual is a set of actions, performed mainly for their symbolic value. It may be prescribed by a religion or by the traditions of a community. The term usually excludes actions which are arbitrarily chosen by the performers." Which means that it's about performing what has been planned before. In other words - it's not ritual if it's not planned to a degree (even if just for and by yourself). I hope it helps. And that I haven't confused you further (I am not sure about what you mean by ritual magick, so I've used literal associations)

  • Hello Gwydion Er, yeah.. There are a lot of questions there. But I guess I didn't necessarily expect them all to be answered. It was mainly speculation really, although I spoze I thought that one or two of them might catch someones attention. I will follow the link later, thank you for that. I would rather think on what you have said, for the tiem being. .. Anyway, you say it's not a ritual if it's not planned, fair enough.. It makes sense, as part of the ritual itself would probably be the planning and the psyching oneself up to it. That answers my question about that, Whatever it is I am doing, is not a ritual, as I do stuff spontaneously with no planning, and more often than not, don't even feel as if it me doing it. Thanks for the reply, I will come back to this, when I have thunk about it a bit more.

  • Ok, we covered the ritual bit, And just about... the unconscious magik bit. I spoze that just really leaves the original subject... handy that! What do you reckon about a mixing of different ideas, together with magik? I get the feeling that you already do that too.. Hee hee! I did read your piece on how your magik works upside down, I certainly understood the sense of it, although you are a very orderly and deep thinker (cor wor!!) I never could manage that at all, as old as I am! it seems that a lot of the essence of the way we think is pretty much the same. It's fortunate that you are able to write down and share a lot of it very eloquently indeed. I am pretty much resigned to the fact that I do not have sufficiently ordered, thigumy, wasname,... structures! to undertake that myself.

  • The orderliness is much of an illusion, trace. I might have shared already, the idea of hyperconsistency, in which consistency is achieved in pieces of the whole system that can be not consistent at all. Never mind that though, as it is irrelevant to this subject. I would just like to point out, that explaining matters to you is - to me - a great lesson and I am really happy you keep actually asking questions. If you take time to check out my website (http://sparrowhawkhaven.eu - sorry for the shameless advertising), you will see, that lots of ideas actually blend together in there. There is Daoism, magick, Tarot, Buddhism, Druidry, sigils, music, poetry, science and others... pretty much anything that seems relevant to the essence of my magickal being. I would be a hypocrite if I'd said that mixing of ideas is not possible. You see, I have been into chaos magick before anything else. It was a very good and useful coincidence, because I consider chaos magick a framework for my whole magickal practice. In the exploration of self, I have discovered a certain set of preferences, rules and ideas, that form the Kore - or the core of chaos, the very essence of myself. Afterwards, when exploring various philosophies, I just took whatever I liked from every system encountered, according to the preferences of the Kore. Hence, the mixture of my magickal system has been created. Questions, class?

  • Oh my paws and whiskers!!! I couldn't have put it better in a trillion gazillion years!!! ......I think ...I love you! I am sorri, I just couldn't resist it. I am totally amazed!

  • lol @trace ^^ I guess it answers your question then. Glad you like it, whatever that is you are amazed with. If you need anything else, let me know.

  • Ok.. I think I have sufficiently recovered to be reasonably sensible now. Apologies again Gwydion.. no disrespect intended at all! ... quite the reverse in fact! I was sooo taken aback, because.. as so frequently occurs since I joined KIA, you could have been reading mi mind, as most of what you said has been in there, swirling about, since before I even knew about the site. I'm not necessarily asking you to believe it. I just think I needed to explain mi reaction.

  • Hee hee!.., our comments got mixed up, you type much faster than i. Many Thanks Gwydion, for the kind offer of more help if I need it.. I am pretty sure I will! :-D

  • Maybe.. We should continue our message conversations right here.. what do you think Gwydion? I think it's relevant, and may attract other opinions and ways of thinking, which will be good for us. I can think of at 'least' two others that would enhance the soup of our thinking, as it were...mayhap it's time for a little spice?

  • I am unsure which messages you are thinking of - we can continue discussing matters here, obviously, but whatever was said in personal messages, let it stay there

  • Oh fer sure!.. ... I already agreed to that.

    Anyroadtonowhere, you were saying about a piece that you were thinking about writing. or, are there a lot of them? and also, I just wondered... What do you think of when someone says infinity?

  • I just read the original post again, and something immediately came to mind. To want nothing... is to have everything.

  • There's at least a few things I want to write. I can't be doing that for now though. I need some free time for practice and silence - replying to activity in here takes up a lot of time on its own anyway. I will, at some point, get to writing though, so no worries.

    As for infinity - I see it as void. Something, that is, but its physical manifestation is based on non-existence. In the end, I consider 'infinity' a real fake for a simple reason of not being able to grasp it in any way - as ungraspable -it's useless. But in the same time, it's also the ultimate tool or basis. There is no explanation for that though. It can only be experienced - like most of chaos magick.

  • Hmmm! ..yeah, you could say, infinity is everything ... and nothing.

  • Interesting conversation.

    I can't perceive infinity as the void. I can see how this idea works in intellectual realm. The concept makes perfect sense but it is not how I feel it.

    I remember best how I experienced infinity on lsd and it kind of shaped my way of thinking about it forever. It was a sense of being connected to everything and so my consciousness had no limits. This sense of lack of limit was also connected to bizarre perception of surroundings. My vision split so I could not see as you do in everyday life. I have seen everything multiplied into smaller and smaller versions of itself like a fractal. I felt like I melted into it all. There was no sense of void in it, rather excess over the limits, divine madness. So to come back to 'reality' I decided to focus on a single point. I experienced my 3rd eye to open and I could actually see it from outside myself. Once this happened I could see one reality again, this felt much more like a void but it wasn't nihilistic. It was blissful orderly and fulfilling.

    So as you can see from it my idea of it is slightly different to Gwydions. Still the difference is possibly very superficial. Even the best worded eloquent answer is just a lots of words stack together. It is the person who reads them who actually puts meaning into them. I can't be sure that my understanding of what Gwydion's said is what he meant. I only know my interpretation of it. I suppose it's the same for everyone else.

    This is the reason why I find good questions usually more illuminating than good answers. I like you Trace asking about magick for this reason. You may find the answers here but in truth it is your own answers.

  • Thank you Lolita. Yes, you are right, It is my own answers... actually... I am here to ask the right questions.

  • Lolita, your vision is actually more similar to mine than you can imagine.

    You see, I cannot nor will try to ever define reality (as in in definite matters). In fact, the comparison of the whole (everything) with the void (nothing) is a simple koan technique. The point of it is obviously to free the mind of differentiation between those two. In result, when the words become irrelevant, one can perceive the unity - that nothing and everything is in fact one. And it is exactly the same 'one', as you have described in your post

  • "big grin!"

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